[Nathan]

Does anyone have Nurbergring times, full spec list etc for both the standard ST and the Civic Type-R as my mate has the latter and always bangs on about how it outshines the ST in every aspect

?!?!
I've had a shot of both and the Focus is a much nicer drive and the standard power is superbly delivered right the way up to 140MPH+ (Where legal

)

 

[Nick A]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N%C3%BCrburgring_lap_times

scroll down a bit!!!!

there are 2 times for the ST tho' which sandwich the Type R

Edit:

a friend of mine has an 05 plate Type R (don't know the exact model code!) totally standard, and although the way the cars put the performance out is different, they are quite well matched - you just have to do more gear changing in the Type R! also, I belive, the Type R chassis is a lot firmer and handles better thro' twisty roads...

He also says that he either loves or hates the Type R depending on what mood he's in and road / weather conditiones etc, I think the ST is more of easier to drive car...

 

[mbaker]

Wow.. .7min 8 secs for a Capri Zakspeed Turbo.. That has got to be a brown trouser machine!!!

 

[mick5994]

I clocked a 9:41 BTG this year in a totally standard ST, dont know if thats of any use to you mate.

 

[BadgerST2]

I had a 53 plate type r and have to admit it was a great car the biggest ptoblem is you have to rev the nuts off it,i now have a 58 plate ST and although both cars are very evenly matched i would go for the ford every time it is easier to drive quick and has got more refinements

 

[Nathan]

QUOTE(mick5994 @ 11 Nov 2009, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I clocked a 9:41 BTG this year in a totally standard ST, dont know if thats of any use to you mate.

Standard car times are good, thank

QUOTE(BadgerST2 @ 11 Nov 2009, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I had a 53 plate type r and have to admit it was a great car the biggest ptoblem is you have to rev the nuts off it,i now have a 58 plate ST and although both cars are very evenly matched i would go for the ford every time it is easier to drive quick and has got more refinements

Good comments & closing remarks there

 

[Foz]

I dont have any Nurb times, but IMO they dont tell the whole story anyway as normal road driving is very different to track driving.

My best mate had an EP3 Type-R (not the new one) - and the difference between my ST when standard and his Civic, from a standing start was negligible. From a rolling start I'd say the ST would just edge it due to the higher torque.
On twisties, the ST would get left for dead, possibly only catching up on straights after powering out of a corner.
Only downside to the Type-R is that if the oil isnt warm, the V-TEC doesnt kick in which makes it feels quite abit slower than when the oil is warm.

All in all, the Civic Type-R, in EP3 form, IMO is an awesome car - get a Jackson Supercharger on it and it'd leave the majority of modded ST's in straight lines and on twisties.

 

[morty1970]

QUOTE(BadgerST2 @ 11 Nov 2009, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I had a 53 plate type r and have to admit it was a great car the biggest ptoblem is you have to rev the nuts off it,i now have a 58 plate ST and although both cars are very evenly matched i would go for the ford every time it is easier to drive quick and has got more refinements

People always say this...this is what the car is MEANT to be doing,its a very high revving car,I mean they red line at 8k and getting it on the boil with the high revs is what the EP3 is all about,its not a lazy car like the ST...Id never buy another ST, Id definitely buy another EP3,just my opinion.

Driven properly you will never have to 'rev the nuts off it'

 

[gxg_romford]

QUOTE(wabbit1 @ 11 Nov 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Does anyone have Nurbergring times, full spec list etc for both the standard ST and the Civic Type-R as my mate has the latter and always bangs on about how it outshines the ST in every aspect

?!?!
I've had a shot of both and the Focus is a much nicer drive and the standard power is superbly delivered right the way up to 140MPH+ (Where legal

)

Just get him to watch the Clarkson top gear reviews on both on you tube. Made me giggle at the time!

 

[Wads]

Which version of the Type-R?

ST Vs New Type-R the ST is quicker at 10 out of 11 tracks:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_...2=46040ec30a4d9

ST Vs EP3 (previous model) Type-R the ST is faster at 5 out of 7 tracks:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_...2=458d5fc827e78

 

[Foz]

QUOTE(Wads @ 12 Nov 2009, 05:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Which version of the Type-R?

ST Vs New Type-R the ST is quicker at 10 out of 11 tracks:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_...2=46040ec30a4d9

ST Vs EP3 (previous model) Type-R the ST is faster at 5 out of 7 tracks:

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_...2=458d5fc827e78
The EP3 is quicker than the new Type-R anyway.

 

[coxy1978]

I organize drives in and around the peak district with mainly Type R's (previously owned ep3) and have now started to invite ST (now own one). The two cars are COMPLETELY different cars to own. Standard form nothing in it regards to 0-60 6.6secs beyond that ST's 2.5 V5 wins. Handling, sorry ST's but the Type R does pip us. The st is a bit rolly polly in standard form. Comfort, the Type R is like stepping back to basics. A/C added extra. Practicality, put it this way i sold my EP3 for a 5 dr ST because i'm now a Dad. Accident protection, HOW MANY AIRBAGS FORD????????.

Now to the modified side of the discussion.

I've been in 360 brake turbo'd type R's supercharged ones, ones in all states on tune.

However alot of money has been thrown at these vehicles and i do mean ALOT of money. For £ for lb pls put your hand up the

however friends if i was a young, free and single and had £12k to spend on the most fun car to buy between them in would be a type 'R but not the civic but the integra. This will probably

but i do love a good argument like the next bloke. Looking forward some discussion now

 

[maniac747]

QUOTE(coxy1978 @ 13 Nov 2009, 09:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I organize drives in and around the peak district with mainly Type R's (previously owned ep3) and have now started to invite ST (now own one). The two cars are COMPLETELY different cars to own. Standard form nothing in it regards to 0-60 6.6secs beyond that ST's 2.5 V5 wins. Handling, sorry ST's but the Type R does pip us. The st is a bit rolly polly in standard form. Comfort, the Type R is like stepping back to basics. A/C added extra. Practicality, put it this way i sold my EP3 for a 5 dr ST because i'm now a Dad. Accident protection, HOW MANY AIRBAGS FORD????????.

Now to the modified side of the discussion.

I've been in 360 brake turbo'd type R's supercharged ones, ones in all states on tune.

However alot of money has been thrown at these vehicles and i do mean ALOT of money. For £ for lb pls put your hand up the

however friends if i was a young, free and single and had £12k to spend on the most fun car to buy between them in would be a type 'R but not the civic but the integra. This will probably

but i do love a good argument like the next bloke. Looking forward some discussion now

The type r civic is more of a drivers car than ours. whack on an LSD and lose 20kgs of ur beer gut and its 50/50

 

[Foz]

The Integra is awesome, especially if you get a Jap version.
LSD as standard which really allows you to get the power down - in terms of handling, the Integra (which was lowered) is probably the best handling car I've ever been in, even better than the Lotus Elise IMO.

 

[c.b]

QUOTE(morty1970 @ 12 Nov 2009, 03:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Driven properly you will never have to 'rev the nuts off it'

Not sure what you mean, its a type R its power lies between 5800RPM and 8200RPM, driven properly for me means staying between those revs and I think that would be classed as reving its nuts off!

I came from 2 years of EP3 ownership and its a great car but much more track orientated than the ST, its suspension is much firmer, its a lot nosier as it has zero sound deadening to keep it light, due to its high reving nature it sounds like your trying to race everybody when you pull away from a set of lights all making it more of a chore to live with day in day out which is why I swapped mine for an ST.

 

[brut9]

For what it's worth - I've had 3 Type-R's, 2 EP3's & an FN2 (the latest one!). I've now got an ST2 with a few mods. As already stated, they are different beasts - I have to say I preferred the EP3's to the FN2. But I also love the ST. I think 'each to their own'. If I had to get rid of the ST & could only spend say 7k on a car, i'd get an EP3, put a Spoon exhaust and AEM cold air induction kit (the noise!!!!!!) and i'd be well happy. If I was going to spend 12k, i'd get another ST. This is only my opinion!! Ps, been round 'the Ring in both Type-R models and they were both fantastic (don't run out of fuel & get towed off though!! It read 12 miles of fuel on dash when it stopped! That wasn't my Type-r - or my fault!!

). Looking forward to going round in the ST (with Eibachs a must!)
Bruce

 

[David Fox]

Like many on here, I made the move from Type R to ST. I had a DC5 Integra (the Jap import only) and it was an awesome machine. In the corners it embarrasses much faster cars, and would eat an ST alive. however, straight line speed, the ST has it. It really matters not to be honest, both are different cars in terms of driving. The DC5 had very little torque, and you had to be constantly revving it past 6000 rpm to get it alive - that said it was good round town on fuel! The ST is for me, a complete car as you can easily go on long journeys, short blasts, take the family along as well etc where you can't really do it in a DC5 Type R.

Someone mentioned that fitting a Jackson Supercharger on the Civic would leave the ST standing - true, but then you lose the VTEC which is one of the main points on owning the Type R's. My friend done this to his Civic, then promptly removed it! Fast as it was, he said the car lost it's 'character'. Type R fans will know what I mean!

Both good cars in my opinion. But what does a track time matter? just get the ST tuned and laugh at him when you leave him standing every time, in any gear!

And on a final note about Civics:

Now if he was talking about the FD2 Civic Type R (Jap Only) then they are an awesome machine and even beat the Integra for handling. Still tempted to get one, not many in the country at all (don't even think 100 are)!

 

[rich83]

I sold my EP3 for an ST which I have mountuned. As much as I love the ST I miss my civic so badly I 'm tempted to sell up and go back and get one of the last EP3's (which are supposed to handle better than pre-facelifts). The 2 machines are totally different and have their pro's:

PRO'S FOR FOCUS

• built quality (feels more solid built/planted on road)
• comfort
• creature comforts (ST3 - heated windscreen, xenons etc)
• Tunability
• Easy to drive fast

PRO'S FOR CIVIC EP3

• Thrilling to drive (involving)
• Looks (looks a lot more different to standard varients inside and out)
• Sound (grin factor 10)
• Gear change (position and feel)
• seats (low, hugging and comfortable)

EP3 feels like a bit like a racing car on the road and is very dramatic in its power delivery.
ST260 feels like a very laid back, grown up car with power.
I have learnt its not always about how fast your car goes but how it feels to drive: I always knew i was in a hot hatch in the civic, but in the focus you can forget where you are cause its so comfortable. Depends what you prefer really.

 

[stomach]

QUOTE(BadgerST2 @ 11 Nov 2009, 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I had a 53 plate type r and have to admit it was a great car the biggest ptoblem is you have to rev the nuts off it,i now have a 58 plate ST and although both cars are very evenly matched i would go for the ford every time it is easier to drive quick and has got more refinements

Agree with you completely, I also owned a 53 plate CTR and now own a 57 plate ST and do prefer the ST. Mainly I changed as the wife and I were trying for a baby and I wanted a couple of extra doors

.

 

[Lawsome]

Drove an EP3 a few years ago, drove an FN2 last week and drove an ST....today

The EP3 was an utter hoot in the corners. Exhausting on the straights when driving on the road due to the engine needing the revs to make quick progress.
The FN2 felt completely soulless by comparison. Fantastic interior though.
The ST, although in real world terms probably wasn't that much quicker, felt much faster and was easier to drive.

When you get on the public road, it would come down to the drivers skill and commitment as there's just not enough in it for bragging rights