[grmassey32]

I'm having a nightmare here. I bought a focus st 250 in October and put 4975 miles on it when it completely s*** itself 3 weeks ago. The engine Is seized.

The car was clearly highly modified and was not advertised as such.
It's on a bad credit finance deal through billing finance at 240 quid a month for the next 5 years.
Obviously I'm fighting it under consumer rights as I only had it 3 months when this happened..

The finance company sent out an engineer who only took the plastic engine cover off , checked the dipstick and just took photos then read the engine codes..

I've now had their final decision that states ,from the report :

"There was no breach of the engine crankcase that would account for a sudden loss of oil, leading us to the conclusion that the vehicle has been run with insufficient oil in the sump and insufficient coolant, this has caused the vehicle to run at elevated temperatures and induced engine seizure"

They are closing the complaint and blaming me for lack of maintenance..

This guy just looked at the car on the street. Am I wrong in thinking here there is no way he can properly tell if there's a cracked block or blown gasket by visually looking at the top of the engine. Didn't have the car up to look underneath with tray off.

I did check the levels regularly and all were fine. The car was burning alot of oil.. 2 litres in the space I'd had it and that's why I was checking it regularly . What ever has happened has caused all the coolant and oil to drain out. .. big puddle of oil under her at the recovery yard the next day which sadly I didn't take photos of.

Questions.. what Could cause all the coolant and oil to come out in one event?

And, Do I have a leg to stand on here.. are they trying to play me?
Surely the engine needs taken out to inspect it properly? How can he say a pump didn't fail ?

I'll add I hadn't checked the oil in a week or so but no oil light warning came on. Could the engine have burned itself dry of oil so fast with no warning?
And also a few days prior to this I had the engine light come on briefly but then went off again ...which the engineer said the code was a misfire in cylinder 1. I can't help but think this was heavily involved?

Cheers

 

[kiemuloly]

I would imagine if something serious had happened to the block that caused it to dump all the oil, you wouldn't need to give it much inspection to find that oil everywhere.

If the dipstick and coolant levels are empty with no sign of major leakage the engineer gave a fair analysis.

Time scales are a bit confusing here, all the oil drained out after it seized? If so I'm assuming that is because the block or something warped when it cooled down and dumped it, so the engineer checked it after it had all drained and deduced there was no fluids?

If so that's what you want want to appeal. Then it would need to be checked out. Might have been a seized oil pump at that point that could cause it to fail. If it was a cheap pump fitted during a cambelt, could be suspect.

Clutching it straws but he misfire could have been an issue with the dreaded lspi which could have caused it to lose oil through combustion but you would have noticed the engine behave poorly as it burnt that much oil and have evidence in the exhaust.

Realistically I think if you convince them to look into it further your next nightmare could be when they say it's highly modified and wasn't sold as such- you made it run beyond it's designed tolerances or something stupid. Did you not notice that previously?

 

[grmassey32]

I would imagine if something serious had happened to the block that caused it to dump all the oil, you wouldn't need to give it much inspection to find that oil everywhere.

If the dipstick and coolant levels are empty with no sign of major leakage the engineer gave a fair analysis.

Time scales are a bit confusing here, all the oil drained out after it seized? If so I'm assuming that is because the block or something warped when it cooled down and dumped it, so the engineer checked it after it had all drained and deduced there was no fluids?

If so that's what you want want to appeal. Then it would need to be checked out. Might have been a seized oil pump at that point that could cause it to fail. If it was a cheap pump fitted during a cambelt, could be suspect.

Clutching it straws but he misfire could have been an issue with the dreaded lspi which could have caused it to lose oil through combustion but you would have noticed the engine behave poorly as it burnt that much oil and have evidence in the exhaust.

Realistically I think if you convince them to look into it further your next nightmare could be when they say it's highly modified and wasn't sold as such- you made it run beyond it's designed tolerances or something stupid. Did you not notice that previously?

My main complaint is that the car was sold to me modified and I being a layman did not realise. Nowhere in the advert for the car says its modified so i believe the law has to be be on my side there.

In terms of the failure it is very confusing. The car was burning oil at a rate of 2.5 litre in 4900 milew. I'd just stuck in another top off about a week before . Could it have somehow ramped up the burning of oil to a far higher level and went totally dry without so much as a low oil warning on the dash? And what about the coolant? It never budged but when this happened its all gone?

I just don't see how they can accurately assess what the cause is by some bloke peeking under the bonnet . Even in the few days after when I contacted an engine rebuild company they said they would need to inspect the engine to determine the fault.

The guy didn't even have the undertray off where I'd assume a large amount of the oil would be..

In terms of the other thing you mentioned , the car did back fire excessively, from the start of owner ship and the exhaust would smoke after a long idle, but as the weather was cold I wasn't sure if this were an issue or not.

Having only just got the car I hadn't even had it at a mechanics for anything other than a seized caliper and nobody mentioned anything being wrong when I brought it up.

I'll also not I have all photographic evidence car was modified pre purchase and advertised omitting that so I'm in good shape there

The engineer was on it like a whippet when he seen it then just swept it under the rug when I told him it was all already there.

If you ask me its a phony biased engineer report designed to benefit the company

 

[kiemuloly]

I'm not sure the law has to be on any side as long as the car functioned as a car, maybe someone else can offer advice on details for that point.

I would think it highly unlikely it would burn so fast you wouldn't get a low level warning, once it's gone past that point, you would get a low level warning anyway, perhaps indicating it still had oil and as you suggested, could have been a pump failure. If the metal has heated and warped to such an extent, head gasket or similar could have failed and leaked out the coolant.

To determine a definitive answer you would need to strip it down and inspect it which would hopefully indicate something like a failed pump- but if there's no sign of leakage or fluids it's a fair assumption that it failed due to lack of fluids- especially if the engine seized up. If the spinning engine randomly dumped 6 litres of oil or however much the MK3 takes, it wouldn't just be on the under tray, it would be everywhere under the bonnet.

If the exhaust was white, that's water which if you wasn't losing coolant would likely have been normal. If it had a blue tint it's oil and could have been where your oil was going. Having a misfire on startup is never a good sign, and if you never reported it and had it checked out they could argue further failure if related to that is your fault for not maintaining it properly... A lot of those issues are difficult to tell with a casual glance especially once warmed up so realistically wouldn't be diagnosed when doing caliper unless you asked it to be checked out.

Officially they can burn a lot of oil and still be classed as perfectly fine, although I'm not sure exactly how much that is and yours sounds excessive.

Long as you have proof you haven't modified the car since buying it, they can't argue that, which is probably why the engineer got straight on it because any warranty would be void anyway if you changed things. If it was like that beforehand it's irrelevant, especially if it looks like it's been ran without fluids.
If the company sent out their own engineer I imagine you can ask for a second opinion, but a decent place would use an independent assessor anyway.

Honestly if the engine has seized, and you know it had fluids when that happened which leaked out after, you would want the recovery yard to be able to collaborate your car had enough fluids to make a mess, and/or your under tray and hopefully further assessment would back up that the initial report is incorrect.

If I understand the situation correctly Its definitely worth pestering them for a suitable outcome, but good luck. At the end of the day they think they have the correct answer and won't spend more money trying to prove that they owe you money.

 

[grmassey32]

I'm not sure the law has to be on any side as long as the car functioned as a car, maybe someone else can offer advice on details for that point.

I would think it highly unlikely it would burn so fast you wouldn't get a low level warning, once it's gone past that point, you would get a low level warning anyway, perhaps indicating it still had oil and as you suggested, could have been a pump failure. If the metal has heated and warped to such an extent, head gasket or similar could have failed and leaked out the coolant.

To determine a definitive answer you would need to strip it down and inspect it which would hopefully indicate something like a failed pump- but if there's no sign of leakage or fluids it's a fair assumption that it failed due to lack of fluids- especially if the engine seized up. If the spinning engine randomly dumped 6 litres of oil or however much the MK3 takes, it wouldn't just be on the under tray, it would be everywhere under the bonnet.

If the exhaust was white, that's water which if you wasn't losing coolant would likely have been normal. If it had a blue tint it's oil and could have been where your oil was going. Having a misfire on startup is never a good sign, and if you never reported it and had it checked out they could argue further failure if related to that is your fault for not maintaining it properly... A lot of those issues are difficult to tell with a casual glance especially once warmed up so realistically wouldn't be diagnosed when doing caliper unless you asked it to be checked out.

Officially they can burn a lot of oil and still be classed as perfectly fine, although I'm not sure exactly how much that is and yours sounds excessive.

Long as you have proof you haven't modified the car since buying it, they can't argue that, which is probably why the engineer got straight on it because any warranty would be void anyway if you changed things. If it was like that beforehand it's irrelevant, especially if it looks like it's been ran without fluids.
If the company sent out their own engineer I imagine you can ask for a second opinion, but a decent place would use an independent assessor anyway.

Honestly if the engine has seized, and you know it had fluids when that happened which leaked out after, you would want the recovery yard to be able to collaborate your car had enough fluids to make a mess, and/or your under tray and hopefully further assessment would back up that the initial report is incorrect.

If I understand the situation correctly Its definitely worth pestering them for a suitable outcome, but good luck. At the end of the day they think they have the correct answer and won't spend more money trying to prove that they owe you money.

Yeah I agree with all points. Tbh I've submitted it to the Financial Ombudsman and il just have to see what happens. Just a mystery really . Kind of doubting myself ,how the hell has it ran dry. I was checking it .
Gonna just sorn it for a while, pumaspeed sell a brand new forged engine for 5k or so will have to get saving.

 

[caprixpack]

Not wanting to be a ****, did you test drive it? You say it was backfiring and smoking right from the beginning and was clearly modified but not advertised as such. What was the sale price before finance costs were added? As I'm guessing you're in for around £15k which is seems quite a lot for a mk3.

 

[grmassey32]

Not wanting to be a ****, did you test drive it? You say it was backfiring and smoking right from the beginning and was clearly modified but not advertised as such. What was the sale price before finance costs were added? As I'm guessing you're in for around £15k which is seems quite a lot for a mk3.

Well look I've been an absolute noob here for sure. When I test drove it I knew in my gut it could end in tears.. but I had already the finance in place at this stage and the car just dazzled me , maxton kit spoiler extension, coilovers , fifteen52s. I was in love and even though I knew in my gut it was a bad move I felt i was in too deep and I was never gonna know if the engine was a lemon from a brief test drive anyway.

I didnt know if the back firing was necessarily a symptom of anything bad..

Now that's its all unfolded the way it has I'm thinking it's not right that the dealer has tried to slip through this car without mentioning that it's probably an ex track car with a knackered engine that they've bought cheap as chips at auction and sold for a big profit.

The list price was 8500 with 82k miles and I'm in for 13k over 5 years.

It's probably going to bankrupt me.

 

[Dabhand16]

Consumer rights not fit for purpose/not as described/misleading springs to mind, BUT the very high oil consumption was the red flag and that should have had you take it back to the dealer for remedial action or a refund.

 

[Alb]

Have your own independent inspection done. It can be as "in depth" as you are willing to pay for.

 

[grmassey32]

Consumer rights not fit for purpose/not as described/misleading springs to mind, BUT the very high oil consumption was the red flag and that should have had you take it back to the dealer for remedial action or a refund.

True. I knew I'd get some bs that up to a certain amount is OK so I'd have got nowhere

 

[grmassey32]

Have your own independent inspection done. It can be as "in depth" as you are willing to pay for.

No not yet. I naievly thought the engineer was going to be professional and impartial
...i thought it was the finance company who technically own the car vs the selling garage who would be made to foot the bill. But turns out its the finance company and the selling garage vs me. Easier that way I guess
I certainly may go down the route of independent inspection if the Ombudsman doesn't play ball and I don't have high hopes that they will. At that stage I'm probably having to go further still and take people to court to sue them. Which is a ball ache and a half.

 

[K3FUS]

On Nov 29th last year you posted your concerns about the noise the engine was making:

Weird engine noise or normal?

Hey guys new st owner. It seems the car has been modified and I'm crapping myself it's going to s**t itself on me . Does this idle sound normal to you? https://youtube.com/shorts/wSPz1vyuOg4?feature=share Cheers

www.focusstoc.com

Did you take any action or keep using the car?

I think you need legal advice on the points to argue and those that are irrelevant that could cast questions on your motive for seeking recompense.

My guess is you’ll have to determine if your contact with the dealer was a rejected attempt to let them fix the issue, something you have to give them a chance to do. You can’t demand a refund outside of 30 days of the date of purchase. Your finance may be a help, but only if it’s directly linked to the car I assume.

I’d not try to suggest you didn’t know the car was modified as it’s obvious from your post that you did, even if not the engine explicitly.

I hope you get things sorted, but remember to not assume the dealer knew about it and didn’t tell you.

 

[grmassey32]

On Nov 29th last year you posted your concerns about the noise the engine was making:

Weird engine noise or normal?

Hey guys new st owner. It seems the car has been modified and I'm crapping myself it's going to s**t itself on me . Does this idle sound normal to you? https://youtube.com/shorts/wSPz1vyuOg4?feature=share Cheers

www.focusstoc.com

Did you take any action or keep using the car?

I think you need legal advice on the points to argue and those that are irrelevant that could cast questions on your motive for seeking recompense.

My guess is you’ll have to determine if your contact with the dealer was a rejected attempt to let them fix the issue, something you have to give them a chance to do. You can’t demand a refund outside of 30 days of the date of purchase. Your finance may be a help, but only if it’s directly linked to the car I assume.

I’d not try to suggest you didn’t know the car was modified as it’s obvious from your post that you did, even if not the engine explicitly.

I hope you get things sorted, but remember to not assume the dealer knew about it and didn’t tell you.

Yes I remember posting this and was happy enough with the responses I got that it was the direct injection. I think it probably was just that.
In terms of the mods. Yes I did know it had been modified just not to what degree .. big revo air filter and boost pipe dump valve and 3 inch exhaust. The intercooler looked standard though.
Again totally my bad a heavy modified turbo charged car is a can of worms. But I was blinded by the awesomeness.
But that doesn't mean the dealer isn't in the wrong. The finance company should be doing their due dillegence also.
All that aside the car modded or not has **** itself.. after only a few months. I've been checking the oil and somehow within a week and few hundred miles it's went totally dry.
Is that acceptable? I don't think so for the price I'm paying for it. And I'd love them to fix it but they are washing their hands of it while expecting me to continue to pay them
I'll keep this thread updated with the outcome

 

[K3FUS]

Good luck with your claim, but I think you should seek legal advice.

 

[Holmsie]

it’s a tricky one

 

[JesterST]

Well look I've been an absolute noob here for sure. When I test drove it I knew in my gut it could end in tears.. but I had already the finance in place at this stage and the car just dazzled me , maxton kit spoiler extension, coilovers , fifteen52s. I was in love and even though I knew in my gut it was a bad move I felt i was in too deep and I was never gonna know if the engine was a lemon from a brief test drive anyway.

I didnt know if the back firing was necessarily a symptom of anything bad..

Now that's its all unfolded the way it has I'm thinking it's not right that the dealer has tried to slip through this car without mentioning that it's probably an ex track car with a knackered engine that they've bought cheap as chips at auction and sold for a big profit.

The list price was 8500 with 82k miles and I'm in for 13k over 5 years.

It's probably going to bankrupt me.

At that price with those miles and some bold on splitters I'd have walked. Should have went for something standard that's not been messed with, then anything you add after that on your own is known to you.

Did it not come with some kind of warranty? I suspect at that price probably not but worth asking.

 

[lesfuller666]

I'm having a nightmare here. I bought a focus st 250 in October and put 4975 miles on it when it completely s*** itself 3 weeks ago. The engine Is seized.

The car was clearly highly modified and was not advertised as such.
It's on a bad credit finance deal through billing finance at 240 quid a month for the next 5 years.
Obviously I'm fighting it under consumer rights as I only had it 3 months when this happened..

The finance company sent out an engineer who only took the plastic engine cover off , checked the dipstick and just took photos then read the engine codes..

I've now had their final decision that states ,from the report :

"There was no breach of the engine crankcase that would account for a sudden loss of oil, leading us to the conclusion that the vehicle has been run with insufficient oil in the sump and insufficient coolant, this has caused the vehicle to run at elevated temperatures and induced engine seizure"

They are closing the complaint and blaming me for lack of maintenance..

This guy just looked at the car on the street. Am I wrong in thinking here there is no way he can properly tell if there's a cracked block or blown gasket by visually looking at the top of the engine. Didn't have the car up to look underneath with tray off.

I did check the levels regularly and all were fine. The car was burning alot of oil.. 2 litres in the space I'd had it and that's why I was checking it regularly . What ever has happened has caused all the coolant and oil to drain out. .. big puddle of oil under her at the recovery yard the next day which sadly I didn't take photos of.

Questions.. what Could cause all the coolant and oil to come out in one event?

And, Do I have a leg to stand on here.. are they trying to play me?
Surely the engine needs taken out to inspect it properly? How can he say a pump didn't fail ?

I'll add I hadn't checked the oil in a week or so but no oil light warning came on. Could the engine have burned itself dry of oil so fast with no warning?
And also a few days prior to this I had the engine light come on briefly but then went off again ...which the engineer said the code was a misfire in cylinder 1. I can't help but think this was heavily involved?

Cheers

Hi speak to the finance company at tell them the car is not fit for purpose, I got a range rover evoque in January on finance, I had nothing but problems with dpf and engine management lights coming on, enough was enough I contacted the finance company who to be fair was on my side, they was going to put in a complaint, but the car company said I could return it as they get 1 chance to fix it, I returned it and finance was settled, I now have a 2016 focus st hence me seeing this, you get 6months under consumer act