Ford Focus ST Forum banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,465 Posts
You require third party liability to drive during Touristenfahrten. I personally know people who were/are subject to six figure third party claims. This is unfortunately a life altering amount of money.

There are insurance companies out there that will cover the Nordschleife and Touristenfahrten however don't expect to find the answer easily on the internet, it's not because people want to keep it close to their chests, it's incase their company decide to remove the 'ring part of the policy due to an increase in claims. My personal experience is; Ring regulars will discuss it amongst themselves however will not share the information easily with people they don't know.

There are some companies that cover by the day for damage to your car only, not third party cover. These often only cover the rolling chassis. You downshift into 2nd, instead of 4th at 100mph, tough luck, no payout. You take out €5000 of armco, again you're liable.

Yes, it's technically a public toll road so insurance companies should cover you third party but under subrogation they can pursue you for their financial losses. A very good motoring lawyer I know took a case to the Ombudsman only for them to rule in favour of the insurance company.

The link below is well worth reading. Andrew is a motoring lawyer, petrolhead and Ring regular (I'm also in his GT3RS in that photograph at the top of the web page).

Solictor's view on insurance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,264 Posts
The issue of subrogation is very clear and in various other areas of insurance, such as Marine the case law supports the Mandatory under sufferance position of the insurers, internationally this has been used on various occasions for such problems as damage to the environment.

If a contract excludes something such as the Nurburgring, then the subrogation can be as simple as the Insurer proving that had they know you would be using the vehicle there they would have declined to cover. They will meet their statutory requirement, however the actual recovery is as simple as breach of contract.

In terms of a motor accident this could possibly run into millions of Euros should it result in permanent disability of a third party.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,465 Posts
QUOTE(Si @ 16 Jan 2010, 04:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>In terms of a motor accident this could possibly run into millions of Euros should it result in permanent disability of a third party.
Indeed. I wouldn't want to go through the legal proceedings some people I know have/are still going though.

Crashing my Teg, I can deal with, I own it outright and it's worth peanuts.
Sponsoring the armco, I would begrudgingly deal with that.
Liable for a crashed GT3RS or paralysed motorcyclist? No chance.

As soon as I lose my third party cover, I'm hanging up my gloves for Touristenfahrten.

You can drive as carefully as you want but accidents still happen. The two people who I personally know who were involved in very large claims were neither directly to blame for their accidents. I can't go into further details.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,382 Posts
QUOTE(Mark83 @ 16 Jan 2010, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yes, it's technically a public toll road so insurance companies should cover you third party but under subrogation they can pursue you for their financial losses. A very good motoring lawyer I know took a case to the Ombudsman only for them to rule in favour of the insurance company.

The link below is well worth reading. Andrew is a motoring lawyer, petrolhead and Ring regular (I'm also in his GT3RS in that photograph at the top of the web page).

Solictor's view on insurance.

I seem to recall subrogation simply give them to the right to run the case in your name etc. not make a recovery from the policy holder, this would be done under breach of contract etc.

Anyway, while technically the norshcliffe (spelling?) is a toll road it is now specifically excluded under the majority of policies (including policies that do cover trackdays) hence how they recover any losses incurred settling their obligation etc.
 
G

·
QUOTE(Mark83 @ 16 Jan 2010, 03:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Yes, it's technically a public toll road so insurance companies should cover you third party but under subrogation they can pursue you for their financial losses. A very good motoring lawyer I know took a case to the Ombudsman only for them to rule in favour of the insurance company.

...

Solictor's view on insurance.

Mark, that case was taken to an Adjudicator at the FSO. The case is pending at Ombudsman level. n.b. the insurer is paying the 3rd party claim (as they must) and the Ombudsman is looking at the legality of the indemnity clause. I'm pretty confident that its the first Nurburgring case to reach Ombusman level. Will report on the outcome in the usual place.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,465 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
QUOTE(agtlaw @ 20 Jan 2010, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Mark, that case was taken to an Adjudicator at the FSO. The case is pending at Ombudsman level. n.b. the insurer is paying the 3rd party claim (as they must) and the Ombudsman is looking at the legality of the indemnity clause. I'm pretty confident that its the first Nurburgring case to reach Ombusman level. Will report on the outcome in the usual place.
My mistake Andrew. Fingers crossed for him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,264 Posts
QUOTE(Dennis @ 16 Jan 2010, 09:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I seem to recall subrogation simply give them to the right to run the case in your name etc. not make a recovery from the policy holder, this would be done under breach of contract etc.

Anyway, while technically the norshcliffe (spelling?) is a toll road it is now specifically excluded under the majority of policies (including policies that do cover trackdays) hence how they recover any losses incurred settling their obligation etc.

In the case of insurance, subrogation works both ways, it refers really to the process of ensuring no party is over compensated by stepping into the shoes of the insured etc, I could write you reams on it lol. The action of recovering as I said previously could be as simple as breach of contract, this however would still be a subrogated claim, its a bit technical lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
369 Posts
So what are we supposed to do about it? im going to the 'ring in a couple of weeks, (my second trip) and i know my insurance states it doesnt cover the nurburgring.

Why is it so difficult to buy a short term cover for third party insurance? if i knew i could buy some third party cover, even if it cost £100 a day, i would buy it. but i cant. searching around the internet just leads to nothing, just secretive, cryptic suggestions, no hard links to where to actually get some insurance.

Why doesnt the nurburgring wake up and realise they could make some more money by offering a days cover for £50 per car, make it manditory, and make a killing?

anyway, ive wasted a whole morning searching for insurance, im still forced to go without any because there appears to be no other option. Its a stupid situation.
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top