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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,

I can get military discount (tax paid) as i work for the MOD, thats how i got my motor (brand new st-2 for 15k).
My mate wants a new st, and is asking me if i can get one for him? i would have to get the cash from him, register it in my name, then transfer it to him straight away on the v5 (he would be 2nd owner).

Is this illegal or anything? has anyone else done this?
also, i have noticed these tax paid prices have gone up alot since 07, its 16733 for an st-2 now and 16995 for an st-3?! (focus rs i can get for 26810 with lux pack 1 and bt, in stock-tempting!)

Cheers

Dan
 

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I have no idea about the legal side of things, but if nothing else it goes against the spirit of the scheme, don't you think?
 

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I know with the BFG ones that you have to keep the car for about 1 year although I don't think that applies to the tax paid ones.

However, taking advantage of the scheme in order to buy cars purely to sell on has its own implications. The one year rule was brought in for BFG because people were specificcally buying cars, bringing them back to the UK and selling them to dealers for a profit who would then sell them on again for another profit which is why the 1 year rule was brought in. If people take advantage of the scheme to do a similar sort of thing here (buy cars cheaply for friends anrelatives) then the risk is run of losing the scheme altogether, which penalises everyone.

I am also entitled to use the Military scheme, as are several other members, and would be a little ticked off to lose it through people taking advantage of it. Just my opinion of course, but if your friend wants a cheap car - may I suggest he earns the right to take part in the scheme like the rest of us have.
 

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its no differant to ford employees doing it for there mates /friends etc etc .
i dont realy see it as a problem myself if you can help your friend then do so ,only thing is you may have to keep it registerd in your name for a year but you would need to check what the MOD rules are ie if you have to keep the car in your name for a sertain amount of time .
just my opinion of course .
 

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QUOTE(LawwaST @ 28 Jan 2010, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>I know with the BFG ones that you have to keep the car for about 1 year although I don't think that applies to the tax paid ones.

However, taking advantage of the scheme in order to buy cars purely to sell on has its own implications. The one year rule was brought in for BFG because people were specificcally buying cars, bringing them back to the UK and selling them to dealers for a profit who would then sell them on again for another profit which is why the 1 year rule was brought in. If people take advantage of the scheme to do a similar sort of thing here (buy cars cheaply for friends anrelatives) then the risk is run of losing the scheme altogether, which penalises everyone.

I am also entitled to use the Military scheme, as are several other members, and would be a little ticked off to lose it through people taking advantage of it. Just my opinion of course, but if your friend wants a cheap car - may I suggest he earns the right to take part in the scheme like the rest of us have.

Ahem! 12 years serving Queen 'N' Country meself chaps ( h'airborne !!! ) ............. doesn't bother me in the slightest if he ( dorme ) can wangle this deal!


If you can get away with it matey .... go for it ..... everyone is at it in one way or another
so either fill the Governments coffers with the extra tax or do the deal ........................................

.............................. I know what I'd do !!!!!
 

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I didn't say not to do it - just that the scheme has been abused before and it resulted in a tightening of the rules. There are few benefits, and this is one of them, so having it removed through misuse would be ...disappointing.

It is entirely up to the OP whether he does this or not. Personally, I wouldn't.
 

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I personally can't see the problem, providing you are not selling for profit. As for the morality of buying a car for a friend I can't see anything wrong with that either. You have earnt the right to that discount and are mearly helping a friend. I wish I had friends like you!!


I'd check the small print of the scheme though, there must be a minimum peroid you own the car for before you are allowed to transfer ownership?
 

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Depends on the actual terms of the scheme, most Ford schemes require you to hold the car for a minimum of 9 months or pay the discount back!

If this is the case and you are caught, you have gained pecuniary advantage, which is in itself unlawful

There are also questions in regard to an abuse of privilege or position, which at criminal, common and martial law are unlawful or illegal.

You are in effect defrauding FMC of the discount, in that this person is clearly in the market for an ST you have stepped in and recived a discount that would not normally be given to this person, thus depriving FMC of this amount.
 

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If this is morrally right i will eat my hat.


As an ex squaddy i would not dream of it, if its ok to do then why dosent some serving member of the armed forces open up a garage buy some cars with the MOD discount and wait the prescribed time then sell them as brand new second hand.


actually sound like a plan
 

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QUOTE(glennboysst3 @ 28 Jan 2010, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>its no differant to ford employees doing it for there mates /friends etc etc .
i dont realy see it as a problem myself if you can help your friend then do so ,only thing is you may have to keep it registerd in your name for a year but you would need to check what the MOD rules are ie if you have to keep the car in your name for a sertain amount of time .
just my opinion of course .
Ford Employees have the Ambassador scheme which allows half Privilege discount to be awarded to a friend, maybe used once per 12 month period.

For full employee discount you have to be on the specified family tree of relatives of the employee to qualify for Privilege discount. The car then has to be kept for 9 months.

I expect the same applies to the Ambassador scheme. If you abuse th escheme and are found out (they do audit it and can request to see an insurance certificate in the name of the employee or relative etc) you risk being charged for the discount given, facing disciplinary action and being banned from future use of the scheme. Keeping the car in your name and selling it on will cause issues as insurance companies require the car to be registered to the policy holder and of course you're leaving yourself wide open to receiving all the parking tickets and speeding fines run up by the actual user of the car.

Not recommended in my humble opinion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
thanks for the advice guys, bit of a mixed bag though?!


its not an ambassador scheme direct through ford, but obviously affects ford directly as the company buy it from ford cheap with the agreement its going to mod/serving uk based personnel.

i am having a slight moral issue, but then again, as mentioned, other gov workers would probably be quite quick to take advantage. There doesnt seem to be any formal rules set out anywhere that i can see, but i could be overlooking something.

Ill have a qord with my mate and maybe get him to look around for a good deal new through a dealership? what would you say the best possible prices are for a new st-2 anyway?
 

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Interesting thread. Bought my car under military discount last year an paid just under 16k for my ST 2. Gave the dealer a bell regarding purchasing for a 3rd party an he said as long as your not buying in bulk they arent too bothered! Reckons you could do a couple a year an obviously you'd be the vehicles first keeper.
So if i were you i would!
Also reckon mines worth just under 15k px so may be tempted to treat myself to another this time in electric white................
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
QUOTE(GavTheGat @ 28 Jan 2010, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Interesting thread. Bought my car under military discount last year an paid just under 16k for my ST 2. Gave the dealer a bell regarding purchasing for a 3rd party an he said as long as your not buying in bulk they arent too bothered! Reckons you could do a couple a year an obviously you'd be the vehicles first keeper. So if i were you i would!Also reckon mines worth just under 15k px so may be tempted to treat myself to another this time in electric white................Interesting thread. Bought my car under military discount last year an paid just under 16k for my ST 2. Gave the dealer a bell regarding purchasing for a 3rd party an he said as long as your not buying in bulk they arent too bothered! Reckons you could do a couple a year an obviously you'd be the vehicles first keeper. So if i were you i would!Also reckon mines worth just under 15k px so may be tempted to treat myself to another this time in electric white................ :whistle:Interesting thread. Bought my car under military discount last year an paid just under 16k for my ST 2. Gave the dealer a bell regarding purchasing for a 3rd party an he said as long as your not buying in bulk they arent too bothered! Reckons you could do a couple a year an obviously you'd be the vehicles first keeper. So if i were you i would!Also reckon mines worth just under 15k px so may be tempted to treat myself to another this time in electric white................


cheers for the info mate. is it worrying that i just read all you typed only to realise you repeat yourself at the end like there was futher info?!
really worrying!
 

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QUOTE(Si @ 28 Jan 2010, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Depends on the actual terms of the scheme, most Ford schemes require you to hold the car for a minimum of 9 months or pay the discount back!

If this is the case and you are caught, you have gained pecuniary advantage, which is in itself unlawful

There are also questions in regard to an abuse of privilege or position, which at criminal, common and martial law are unlawful or illegal.

You are in effect defrauding FMC of the discount, in that this person is clearly in the market for an ST you have stepped in and recived a discount that would not normally be given to this person, thus depriving FMC of this amount.

Completely agree with whats written above.

If Fords find out, then the implications can be serious, let alone what would happen to you with internal matters

In my opinion, you are obtaining property by deception. You are deceiving Fords by making them believe it's yours even though you will pass it on. The car was meant to be obtained at the full price for someone not applicable for the discount scheme, but you, knowing that, went ahead and did it anyway.

Would they be able to re-take the car back as it was unlawfully obtained using a discount scheme that is only for the person purchasing?

Section 15(4) Theft Act 1968 requires the deception to be deliberate or reckless:

* A deception will be deliberate where the defendant knows that what he represents as true is untrue. ( ie obtaining a car through a discount scheme and knowing it is for someone else but claims it for himself at the time!)

IMO... don't do it....
 

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I reckon it's a morally bankrupt idea and if caught I woudl like to think they would be some serious punishments for both you and your friend but the reality of it is that will probably never find out and you'll have beaten the system.

If it was me and I decided to leave my morals at home that day I'd at least look to buy it from a dealer a few counties over ... unless you have an extremely good friendship with your local salesman.

Overall, I wouldn't do it. You earnt your right to a cheaper ST and your mate wants one but can't afford it (and/or doesn't want to pay full price). That's life, tell him to pay up like everyone else did.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
welliv esought some advice from a department here that deals with mil discounts/entitlements and they say theyve heard of it before, and as long as its not done on mass, then its probably harmless, she also said she is not aware of any legal issues.

ive had some excellent bits of info here and one opinion im definately gonna look into (you know who you are!)

cheers
 

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If your mate is that keen on getting an ST, maybe suggest selling him yours at Px price then use the money to buy yourself a shiney new one using your discount. Obviously your mate wont get a new one but it is still an ST and sure its in good nick.... then its all above board!
 

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Oh and just noticed ur in Sandhurst.... do u have club stickers in ur back windows? I drive through Sandhurst to Bracknell everyday
 
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