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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well against my better judgement i booked the car into arnold clark (tullos) for its MOT, my thoughts being that i would get them to ensure all recalls had been carried out, try get them to carry out a TSB on the drivers seat, and if any warranty work needed doing then it could be left with them..

OH DEAR

well dropped the car off around 10am...... killed time around town until 1.45pm

got back to dealership service centre just before 2pm - car is still in the car park where i left it....


they eventually get the car on the ramp just before 3.. so much for the mid afternoon pick up time.

anyway after sitting in the waiting room for over an hour and a half i get a phone call from the back office saying the car had failed.... I had worried that maybe the 3" downpipe/sportscat + exhaust might be the cause but no ... i asked the girl to come to the front desk to discuss the details, which she was reluctant to do...

Anyway it was failed on

1. the rear number plate being unsecure --- but was held on fine when the car was washed yesterday and sitting straight when i dropped it off
2. Locking nut missing from the OSF wheel ???
- strange

So they quoted £80 for a full set of locking nuts and offered to re attach the plate for free ..... why didnt they just stick it back when they did the test i dont know????
I asked them just to stick a standard nut on to pass the test and they didnt have any at the centre but had some at the parts dept. Unfortunately there was no one to run the nuts up the road and they would not be retest this afternoon despite me offering to walk the 15-20min round trip to get the nut to allow the tech to perform the 2 min visual recheck, as they would not need to check its tight or torque it..

So they said they couldnt fit it in for a retest until next week - and charge me another £27 ....eh no for start its a 2 min visual check on a number plate and nut and 2nd im offshore 1st thing thursday morning.

So after haggling im getting it checked 8am tomorrow. I got a 4 new nuts for free out of a friends tool box.

Anyway went to collect the car from the car park to find the rear numberplate hanging vertically on the tailgate - when they said not secure i thought they were referring to it being slightly loose not hanging off - they obviously tugged it to check and left it like that.

I didnt go back as i need to go in, in the morning. 2 min stop past halfords next door saw the number plate reattached before setting back on my way.

But this is the bit im struggling to get my head round, when i left the garage i started noticing a noise associated with the front wheels that was getting worse and worse and worse.. as i crossed town. Initially i thought it was something stuck in the tyre or the driveshaft bolts that everyone has problems with.... had a quick check in asda carpark and all visually looked ok, tyres alright and weights still on the rims.

Pulled into a garage at foveran and had him check the nuts - All the front nuts were loose.
Now its strange that both were like this and all nuts were loose not just one or two, but concerning that the locking nut was missing at teh MOT as well.

So either they ALL worked loose from when the pads were changed last month ( I know these were all double checked by me after my mate did them), the dealership loosened the nuts and removed the wheels (not required for MOT) or someone has tampered with my car ?? can't decide, but am going to ask the dealership tomorrow.

SO tommorrow i have to get a retest and an going elsewhere to have allignment / balancing checked to see it the wheels are damaged (warped/buckled) as a result.
 

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Sounds like a shoddy service all round there! Won't be going back I'd have thought!

Strange you should mention the OSF locking nut going missing, I had the exact same thing on my car a few weeks back on my car when it went for it's first service! It also happened to a mates car a few days later (not an ST!). Spooky happenings going on in the locking nut area!
 

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Stu, you have a recipe for not going there again. MOT is a very simple thing on a healthy car and i'm sure you'd know if one of your wheels was missing a nut. Sounds like a con job to me. Have them retest for free, insist on waiting and watch them check it.

My car passed MOT with flying colours and with no incidents. I probably sound like paranoid but i'm sure they'd found something if i was one-off customer and wasn't watching.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I gave th car a good wash and check over yesterday in prep for it to identify any marks etc, im sure all wheel nuts were present and accounted for. I have had my powder coated wheels damaged before so these i wanted to make sure were still pristine before putting into the garage.

I was watching like a hawk through the viewing window until they put a transit van on the ramp by the window and obscured the view of the whole workshop


number plate was definately on when it went into the workshop
 

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If your car was in for an mot only then i doubt very much the guys at the garage would , (1) have the time to slacken or remove one of your wheel nuts. (2) Why would they want to do that? there is far easier and quicker ways to extract money out of paying customers than slacken wheels.
As for your number plate, as its the back one and it was obviously stuck on, you find over time that the glue on the pads becomes less affective, so when mr tester comes along and give your plates a gentle tug to make sure they are secure it comes off in his hands.

Infact what you should do is go in with some beer for the boys tomorrow and thank them for bringing to your attention that the wheel bolt was missing, imagine if they never and you were tanking down the road only to see your wheel pass you!!! Even better imagine losing your rear plate and getting a load of speeding tickets through with your reg on them as someone has used your plate on there car...

Am an mot tester and i have heard all this stuff before, and a lot worse.

You have to remember these guys 9 times out of 10 dont care if your car passes or fails, your car is just one in a queue waiting to get done.

People should learn to give mechanics and dealers a break, they are not all out there to screw you over!

Rant over
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
oh forgot to mention also that they couldnt do the TSB on the seat because its only covered under the 1st 12 months - despite having been in within the 12months initially and been back since - that was the 3rd attempt but thought i might get somewhere as i went armed with the info for them to fix it.

pretty dumb really, took them longer than 12 months for the issue to have a ford approved techincal solution as far as im aware
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
QUOTE(goonturbo @ 10 Nov 2009, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>If your car was in for an mot only then i doubt very much the guys at the garage would , (1) have the time to slacken or remove one of your wheel nuts. (2) Why would they want to do that? there is far easier and quicker ways to extract money out of paying customers than slacken wheels.
As for your number plate, as its the back one and it was obviously stuck on, you find over time that the glue on the pads becomes less affective, so when mr tester comes along and give your plates a gentle tug to make sure they are secure it comes off in his hands.

Infact what you should do is go in with some beer for the boys tomorrow and thank them for bringing to your attention that the wheel bolt was missing, imagine if they never and you were tanking down the road only to see your wheel pass you!!! Even better imagine losing your rear plate and getting a load of speeding tickets through with your reg on them as someone has used your plate on there car...

Am an mot tester and i have heard all this stuff before, and a lot worse.

You have to remember these guys 9 times out of 10 dont care if your car passes or fails, your car is just one in a queue waiting to get done.
People should learn to give mechanics and dealers a break, they are not all out there to screw you over!

Rant over


I can appreciate that the number plate can work loose after time - im just dissapointed they pulled it and left it hanging.
They wrote on the on the paper work that the number plate would be reattached FOC (free of charge) would have been nice if they could have done it before releasing the car, or left the plate inside the car rather than leave it hanging.

as for the wheel nuts - i will be suprise if it was the testers, but i never noticed any noises or issues with the wheels/ steering in the days leading up to the test. This is what im struggling to understand. It just seems to co-incidental but at the same time unlikely and something i will just to have accept has happened as i cant prove / disprove
 

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QUOTE(goonturbo @ 10 Nov 2009, 11:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>If your car was in for an mot only then i doubt very much the guys at the garage would , (1) have the time to slacken or remove one of your wheel nuts. (2) Why would they want to do that? there is far easier and quicker ways to extract money out of paying customers than slacken wheels.
As for your number plate, as its the back one and it was obviously stuck on, you find over time that the glue on the pads becomes less affective, so when mr tester comes along and give your plates a gentle tug to make sure they are secure it comes off in his hands.

Infact what you should do is go in with some beer for the boys tomorrow and thank them for bringing to your attention that the wheel bolt was missing, imagine if they never and you were tanking down the road only to see your wheel pass you!!! Even better imagine losing your rear plate and getting a load of speeding tickets through with your reg on them as someone has used your plate on there car...

Am an mot tester and i have heard all this stuff before, and a lot worse.

You have to remember these guys 9 times out of 10 dont care if your car passes or fails, your car is just one in a queue waiting to get done.

People should learn to give mechanics and dealers a break, they are not all out there to screw you over!

Rant over


well said IMO

the loose wheel bolts are more than likely from when you have had your pads changed so i would be speaking to who ever fitted them as it could of cost you your life!
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Rear nuts were fine, and they were off to inspect the brakes and deep clean the wheels also.

The nuts were double checked by myself and the bloke who did the brakes after the wheels went back on - it is possible that the have worked loose since then,
but bright sid is the problem was identified and rectified before anything serious happened.

Finally got a valid MOT after a 2 1/2 hour wait this morning..... at least the free expresso coffee is of a decent standard

then they tried to charge me for the retest which is free if returned to the same test centre before the end of the next working day.

Had to actually point out to the service staff the details printed on the failure certificate which state in nice big letters about a free retest and the conditions for a part retest fee.... wonder how many people fell for that and coughed up £27 because the service staff dont know their timescales for retests.

Bad experience and wont be back.

For sure this time ....
 

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Mate

You really need to stop using Tullos and use Lang Stracht. At least they would have taken a locking wheel nut set off a sales car and swapped it for you. They might have charged you per say - but they would have put a bit of common sense into it.

Tullos is turning into a 'multi' brand site - so there's no reason for there to be 'ford' trained mechanics there - only GTG (Glasgow Training Group) Trained ones.. (not that Im saying there is anything wrong with that)... but they have not been through the Ford Courses so are technically not Ford Technicians.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
that was the last ford garage i will be using for the ST since the warranty is up and 1st MOT done, If i keep it long enough for another one it will be going to I+K at inverurie.
 

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QUOTE(Marc @ 11 Nov 2009, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Mate

You really need to stop using Tullos and use Lang Stracht. At least they would have taken a locking wheel nut set off a sales car and swapped it for you. They might have charged you per say - but they would have put a bit of common sense into it.

Tullos is turning into a 'multi' brand site - so there's no reason for there to be 'ford' trained mechanics there - only GTG (Glasgow Training Group) Trained ones.. (not that Im saying there is anything wrong with that)... but they have not been through the Ford Courses so are technically not Ford Technicians.

You will find that all the apprentices that have worked there way up through the years in all Arnold Clark dealers (vauxhall,seat ford,vw,Nissan) are all GTG trained. I know for sure the AC vauxhall dealer i work the apprentices get put through the GM academy once they have finished at GTG
 

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Hey stu sorry to hear bout your day at tullos ford , I bought my car there 8 months ago and took out my first 3 services on a plan , so hope all goes ok its not due until march.I hope i can just put it to langstract!! yeh ive always used langstract before and still had problems there too! no win
 

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QUOTE(michael1 @ 11 Nov 2009, 10:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Hey stu sorry to hear bout your day at tullos ford , I bought my car there 8 months ago and took out my first 3 services on a plan , so hope all goes ok its not due until march.I hope i can just put it to langstract!! yeh ive always used langstract before and still had problems there too! no win

make sure the servicing there doing on the plan is the correct service for age/mileage and includes everything it should as there often the bare minimum
 

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GTG is owned and run by arnold clark.

All main dealer apprentices have to do dealer apprenticeships, quite a bit of the training is leased out to GTG.
However, a time served mechanic can get a job at any main dealer garage and hey presto they are instantly main dealer trained mechanics in that marque.
The average and i say average main dealers has less than 40% Fully trained mechanics in that dealers marque.
The technicians will be fully time served mechanics but prob not the marque they work in.

Evans halshaw kirkcaldys two ford master technicians left a couple of months ago to start up themselves and they have never been replaced.
 

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QUOTE(converted chris @ 11 Nov 2009, 07:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>You will find that all the apprentices that have worked there way up through the years in all Arnold Clark dealers (vauxhall,seat ford,vw,Nissan) are all GTG trained. I know for sure the AC vauxhall dealer i work the apprentices get put through the GM academy once they have finished at GTG

On the Same breath you will be lucky if any of the Master Tech's at the Ford Lang Stracht Branch have changed in the last ten years. The particular Guy who works on my car has been through the GTG (and goes there for progressive training) and the Ford College stuff for the Dealer 'standards' and has now been badged a 'Ford Master Tech'.

The other 'motor Centres' which arnold is punting everywhere now 'service centres' he is calling them a bit like a kwik fit style idea is what he has rolled out at the Ford Tullos site, and the Ford Tullos site never had 'much' in the way of experienced 'FORD' mechanics anyway - as its main function was always a 'rapid fit'. The Langstracht branch has always been / will remain to be the best in Aberdeen for Fault Diagnosis, just due to the pooled amount of experience they have (being a Harpers branch in a previous life) all of the staff were retained and still are there from their time served as apprentices
 

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Think these comments are a bit unfair on the mechanics. Having worked at the Craigshaw branch as a Ford Senoir Technician before moving on to pastures new. The guys at both branches in Aberdeen who do the diagnostics all recieve the same training at what used to be a Ford registered training centre in Coatbridge and latterly at Daventry . These garages have a scale of Master Technicians, Senior Technicians, Technicians and the rest are semi skilled and Apprentices.
If anything, its management and reception's misunderstanding of work load that makes a shambles of it. The 2 top tiers are the fellas who do diagnostic work, and fair do's there arent many of them. Yes, there are a few wannabes in with the good guys.
From reading the OP, the tester is quite within his rights to fail on these items.(Being a former MOT tester myself) And yes, it does seem petty. A car can fail the MOT for an empty washer bottle. But thats not the tester's responsibility, but that of the owner/presenter.
In no way am I defending the dealership but having been on the coal face myself, I know what its like. I worked for a prestige brand in the end. But there was 4 of us. And I was the only one qualified, never mind time served.
Check out www.automotivetechnician.org Find you're favourite dealership and pick a Qualified technician trained by the manufacturer's training staff. They have to be assessed in house and by an independant assessor.
 

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QUOTE(Granite @ 29 Nov 2009, 08:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>Think these comments are a bit unfair on the mechanics. Having worked at the Craigshaw branch as a Ford Senoir Technician before moving on to pastures new. The guys at both branches in Aberdeen who do the diagnostics all recieve the same training at what used to be a Ford registered training centre in Coatbridge and latterly at Daventry . These garages have a scale of Master Technicians, Senior Technicians, Technicians and the rest are semi skilled and Apprentices.
If anything, its management and reception's misunderstanding of work load that makes a shambles of it. The 2 top tiers are the fellas who do diagnostic work, and fair do's there arent many of them. Yes, there are a few wannabes in with the good guys.
From reading the OP, the tester is quite within his rights to fail on these items.(Being a former MOT tester myself) And yes, it does seem petty. A car can fail the MOT for an empty washer bottle. But thats not the tester's responsibility, but that of the owner/presenter.
In no way am I defending the dealership but having been on the coal face myself, I know what its like. I worked for a prestige brand in the end. But there was 4 of us. And I was the only one qualified, never mind time served.
Check out www.automotivetechnician.org Find you're favourite dealership and pick a Qualified technician trained by the manufacturer's training staff. They have to be assessed in house and by an independant assessor.

I totally agree with what your saying here.

BUT. If a registered ATA technician works in a non ATA approved garage (As the newest technician at my work does) then his ATA accreditation is not recognised the same.
There are thousands of excellent technicians out there that dont work at main dealerships, unfortunately its the finding them thats not easy.
 

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Just had a look at the ATA website, and they dont display the names of accredited technicians anymore, just garages who employ ATA qualified techs. Dont get me wrong, there are some absolute cowboys out there working for all garages, but as long as Main Dealers are bringing in profit, they will employ any muppet wi a certificate, as long as they have the Qualified number of staff they need for the size of the garage for the BS and Manufacturer standards.
 
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