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Drove a MK3 RS bit underwhelming


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#16
Pitsparky

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2.3 is not a strong engine, but what a fabulous car.

Apart from the gasket farce, In what way is it not a strong engine? It is a 20 year old Mazda engine the same as the 2.0 ST engine. Improved and strengthened for turbo charging. Used in 100000 of cars ultra reliably, just won yet another award last year. Ford engineers claim its maximum reliable design power is 375 hp, over double its original power. If you go above that you are pushing it. It is already near its limit and at it with mp275! Same with any engine including the volvo 2.5 with its notorious liner issues. I guess this is why manufacturers put a lot of r&d into lifting the power. Nearly always with serious engine mods even for moderate increases.

So I totally disagree, it is an extremely reliable engine. Not heard of any failings whatsoever in mk4 st or Mustang. And not in standard Mk 3 RSs either. Only modified cars.

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#17
sttwoton

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The 2.3 is an open deck, much like the Volvo 2.5, which gives it cylinder cracking and gasket sealing problems sometimes, the 2.0 in the ST is a closed block engine and doesnt suffer from these effects, when a top end tuner builds a big power engine for the RS, they generally use the 2.0 block, as for being a twenty year old Mazda design, they werent running high boost, which the RS does. Theyve had plenty of failures in America with the mustang, lots of claims under warranty to Ford.

#18
s66anb

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Apart from the gasket farce, In what way is it not a strong engine? It is a 20 year old Mazda engine the same as the 2.0 ST engine. Improved and strengthened for turbo charging. Used in 100000 of cars ultra reliably, just won yet another award last year. Ford engineers claim its maximum reliable design power is 375 hp, over double its original power. If you go above that you are pushing it. It is already near its limit and at it with mp275! Same with any engine including the volvo 2.5 with its notorious liner issues. I guess this is why manufacturers put a lot of r&d into lifting the power. Nearly always with serious engine mods even for moderate increases.
So I totally disagree, it is an extremely reliable engine. Not heard of any failings whatsoever in mk4 st or Mustang. And not in standard Mk 3 RSs either. Only modified cars.


My old one failed at 375bhp and I've heard of plenty others failing both standard and modified. Also if they put that much R&D into it why did they recall all rs's before 2017 for another head gasket?

My liners failed in my mk2 rs as well and had several engine rebuilds. However this was running 525bhp so not an ideal car to use for an argument. However the plenums did explode and it was advised by forum members to change it to an uprated one.

Every car has they're issues but in no way is the mk3 rs engine extremely reliable
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#19
s66anb

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Also my mate had a mk3 st which also decided to chuck a rod out the side of the block. I'm unsure what tune his car had though.

#20
Jason Sullivan

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My old one failed at 375bhp and I've heard of plenty others failing both standard and modified. Also if they put that much R&D into it why did they recall all rs's before 2017 for another head gasket?

My liners failed in my mk2 rs as well and had several engine rebuilds. However this was running 525bhp so not an ideal car to use for an argument. However the plenums did explode and it was advised by forum members to change it to an uprated one.

Every car has they're issues but in no way is the mk3 rs engine extremely reliable

 

Yes plenty of standard MK3 RS's going pop mate.

 

Thought mine was going that way recently had 2nd year service at BD Performance S.Wales and decided to change the plugs.

 

Attached File  image.jpg   150.62KB   4 downloads

 

This was cylinder 1 plug luckily it was only the rocker cover gasket which was sorted under warranty 

 



#21
Pitsparky

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My old one failed at 375bhp and I've heard of plenty others failing both standard and modified. Also if they put that much R&D into it why did they recall all rs's before 2017 for another head gasket?

My liners failed in my mk2 rs as well and had several engine rebuilds. However this was running 525bhp so not an ideal car to use for an argument. However the plenums did explode and it was advised by forum members to change it to an uprated one.

Every car has they're issues but in no way is the mk3 rs engine extremely reliable

The 2.3 engine is extremely reliable! 100000s have been made and used in dozens of cars. I hazard a guess a lot mire than 2.5 Volvo engines. A few RS failures among the 99.9% that are totally reliable that you never hear about is irrelevant. The modifications and treatment I regularly witness doesnt surprise me at all. And MK 2 liners fail on standard cars. The head gasket issue is NOT the engines fault !

#22
Pitsparky

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Yes plenty of standard MK3 RS's going pop mate.
 
Thought mine was going that way recently had 2nd year service at BD Performance S.Wales and decided to change the plugs.
 
image.jpg
 
This was cylinder 1 plug luckily it was only the rocker cover gasket which was sorted under warranty 
 

Plenty? You have to put it into context, what is plenty? And how many are trouble free. I bet as many as any other engine. You cannot go by a few that report problems on these forums or turn up at bd. 100000s are not reporting problems, these are the ones you have to compare to. Not the few failures on I still believe almost all modified or possible abused. The engine is already at its safe design limit so if you modify it expect a shorter life, simple physics Im afraid. No different to any other, 350hp from a 2.3 is about right. 300-320 from a 2.0 is about the reliability limit of standard engines. Apart from merc who fully beef up and hand build a special 420. The mp375 is as far as you can go according to Ford engineers in the 2.3.

Whats wrong with plug?

#23
McGherkin

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The issue with the Mk3 RS is that a load were accidentally fitted with the Mustang gasket. That said, even cars with the correct gasket have been failing, although that’s much much rarer.
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#24
Pitsparky

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The 2.3 is an open deck, much like the Volvo 2.5, which gives it cylinder cracking and gasket sealing problems sometimes, the 2.0 in the ST is a closed block engine and doesnt suffer from these effects, when a top end tuner builds a big power engine for the RS, they generally use the 2.0 block, as for being a twenty year old Mazda design, they werent running high boost, which the RS does. Theyve had plenty of failures in America with the mustang, lots of claims under warranty to Ford.


It is open block yes, so are the M3 M4 and many engines.Liner failure on the 2.3 is almost unheard off on standard engines, it becomes a problem on heavily (poorly) modified engines. Same as 2.0 piston failure.

Evidence please on plenty of mustang engine failures? Theres plenty of engine failures of all all engine types if you ignore the millions that dont fail.

Its mostly mines better than yours or envy people who talk about it and exaggerate it, I suppose the same generation and very similar 2.0 Mazda St engine is perfect? The actual people who have these failures rarely appear, its always a mate of a cousins mate, strange that!! If it was common the actual owners would never be away I think!

#25
Pitsparky

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The issue with the Mk3 RS is that a load were accidentally fitted with the Mustang gasket. That said, even cars with the correct gasket have been failing, although thats much much rarer.


Correct gaskets failing? Ive not heard of one, any evidence of how many? Its easy to say things.

#26
McGherkin

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MarkCup70's was starting to fail again by the time he sold it after he had his entire engine replaced (with correct gasket).


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#27
Pitsparky

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I follow BD Perf. They get the odd MK3 RS in but very few including a suspect lubrication failure recently. They are always overflowing with broken MK2s. Is this representative? disproportionate yes, but without knowing the facts. ie bodged modifications the usual culprit, it probably isnt or at least couldnt be proved. You just have to look through this forum and see its difficult to ignore failures in the MK2 section out number the mk3 massively and there arent any on the mk4. Mk4 is relatively new so can still rule that out. Mk 3 is 8 years old so cannot rule that out. Draw youre own unbiased conclusion, I know that is difficult !!

I have not heard of any issues whatsoever with the MK 4 ST 2.3 engine, zilch! Been around nearly two years now.

#28
s66anb

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@Pitsparky ok

Its not just bd performance that I've heard about engines failing. It's been from ford branches, other car garages and car meets. It must just be that 0.01% all seem to be near me or they are the unlucky ones and just by chance I'm the one that speaks to them or hears about it.

Honda now they have a reliable engine. I had my ep3 running 390bhp on a standard block and at the time I was always hitting the limiter and driving the car very hard. Never heard of any failures with that engine unless they were run low on oil but then that's poor maintenance and you deserve what you get as you need to be on top of all this.

All these cars are designed to be driven hard and pushed and if they go pop you can't blame it on the way it was driven. What's the point in buying them then. Yes once tuned your taking that risk and I'm fully aware of that.
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#29
Pitsparky

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MarkCup70's was starting to fail again by the time he sold it after he had his entire engine replaced (with correct gasket).


Thats only one? And unfortunately the quality of the Ford gasket replacement varied enormously dealer to dealer. Personally if I bought an RS, it would not be a recall car. Would be late 17 onwards without doubt.

#30
s66anb

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So now you've went from saying 1000000 of rs's are fine and bullet proof but you don't want nothing to do with the first 1/3rd of the cars that were manufactured lol you must be a pleb. Lolol
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